tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post8778743443449846669..comments2023-11-02T08:09:02.234-04:00Comments on Her Bad Mother: Boarding the HouseHer Bad Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-76721266199736090212007-08-24T08:29:00.000-04:002007-08-24T08:29:00.000-04:00I raised my kids on the Upper West side of Manhatt...I raised my kids on the Upper West side of Manhattan in the 80s, with welfare hotels all around us and homeless guys sleeping on the grates up and down Broadway. I thought then it was good for them to understand that there we were many people far less fortunate than they and that they couldn't help it. They did indeed learn that, but they also spent more time scared than I understood until they were old enough to explain it to me. When my older son when to college in the country he said to me "mom, the only thing that can mug me here is a deer." He had really felt the anxiety of his surroundings - really.<BR/>I'm as ambivalent now as I was when I heard it. I believe that no one should grow up in a glass bell, that the only way to be a citizen of the world is to live in it. BUT I also don't think our kids should come second to our ideology. <BR/>So - I don't have an answer. I would not have signed the petition but I also think that behind all his phony intolerance there's a point that might be valid. <BR/>If life were simple though we wouldn't have blogs to read, would we?Cynthia Samuelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09246114204964806957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-23284530398684834922007-08-23T12:30:00.000-04:002007-08-23T12:30:00.000-04:00This is a tough one...be true to your liberal pers...This is a tough one...be true to your liberal persona or protect your cubs? Can you do both? We live in the heart of suburbia--living in the heart of our city is way out of our price range--but have sent our daughter to a magnet school right smack in the middle of the city. It's more diverse--the real world a friend tells me. A housing development is one block away and many of the kids live there. We have never had an "incident" at the school. But it has a reputation (don't we all?) for problems. Someone asked me if it was one of those schools where they don't allow backpacks for fear of weapons, just because of the housing project. No, it's not, but I told her yes it is, so beware! <BR/><BR/>So to answer the question in the most circuitous manner possible, no I would not have signed the petition. And I would have inwardly mocked his vest.coopkeeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348322159652458112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-86631806261414422932007-08-22T17:53:00.000-04:002007-08-22T17:53:00.000-04:00Sandra,I don't know what I would do. I would like ...Sandra,<BR/>I don't know what I would do. I would like to say "yeah, I wouldn't sign that"...but I don't know. I understand the plight of those less fortunate. I worked in inner city hospitals, I was a home care nurse and went into very tough neighborhoods for years, and I worked with the homeless for a year providing medical care from a van at night. We would roam the streets seeking out the residents with drug and alcohol problems, and mental illness, and provide them with food, supplies, etc. And believe me, I sympathized with them. despite my experiences, (or maybe in spite of what I witnessed) I am not sure I would not sign. I just don't know....The Domesticatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08333326286672903879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-91559576090298832182007-08-22T14:59:00.000-04:002007-08-22T14:59:00.000-04:00I read this early yesterday morning and have been ...I read this early yesterday morning and have been thinking about it ever since. My gut reaction was to say I wouldn't sign it, and I don't think I would...but, like Crazymumma, I can't say for sure because I have never lived in an area like that with a family. I did when I was in college, but that's completely different. <BR/><BR/>Excellent post, Sandra. The discussion you provoked was really interesting.mamatuliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02692442843330582571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-13775544094898248152007-08-22T14:21:00.000-04:002007-08-22T14:21:00.000-04:00Well, I can say I wouldn't sign. I can say this be...Well, I can say I wouldn't sign. I can say this because I lived in an area that had a boarding house, a half way house and far too many crack houses to count.<BR/><BR/>I knew this when we moved there. Wasn't ideal by any stretch. But in the end, it worked for us. The money we saved by living there allowed us to buy our own piece of heaven out in the sticks.<BR/><BR/>Where my neighbours run a grow-op and deal out of their house.<BR/><BR/>Even rural areas have crack houses. <BR/><BR/>It's a complicated matter, not as simple as some of the commenters have implied. Bad things happen in good neighbourhoods too, regardless of who your neighbours are.<BR/><BR/>I just want to squeeze ya for taking this subject on. You're a good egg. With a nice rack. <BR/><BR/>Wink, wink.<BR/><BR/>smooches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-47347567320073716652007-08-22T13:13:00.000-04:002007-08-22T13:13:00.000-04:00I love all the flowers in front of the houses/hous...I love all the flowers in front of the houses/house??!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-26970591079002091202007-08-22T11:26:00.000-04:002007-08-22T11:26:00.000-04:00Oh I am late to this party.Since Jen has so nicely...Oh I am late to this party.<BR/>Since Jen has so nicely described my hometown I guess it is clear why I know it is not just the downtown that has problems. <BR/>It is a tough call. We want our kids to be safe but there is no guarantee of that anywhere we live.<BR/>great post Sandra.moplanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998309937928231527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-56783522680255951562007-08-22T08:00:00.000-04:002007-08-22T08:00:00.000-04:00Living in relatively quiet suburbia, I can't reall...Living in relatively quiet suburbia, I can't really give you an educated, personal opinion. BUT, first instinct would be not to sign and instead, see if Mr. Vest would like to start some sort volunteer group to paint the places and rather than kick the people out, maybe try to HELP those people out. He's taking the easy way out - but getting rid of the boarding house doesn't get rid of the "problem". <BR/>None of this is to say I want my kids exposed to crack dealers, but hell, who knows what the people in my neighborhood are really like! They may be already! Just saying, just because someone lives in a boarding house, doesn't mean they're a crack dealer. Just because someone lives in an expensive home doesn't mean they aren't. <BR/>(I hope that made sense, my dog is completely distracting me by being an idiot!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-24644202015811572952007-08-21T22:16:00.000-04:002007-08-21T22:16:00.000-04:00well, holy moly. now you put it *that* way. i gu...well, holy moly. now you put it *that* way. i guess it depends on whether i actually felt put upon by those "undesirables" or not. if he rubbed my up the wrong way, then no. nah.<BR/><BR/><BR/>definitely a good question, Sandra. gots me thinking as i scour the area we are moving to for nice middle class, bourgy areas where my son will have a good school.gingajoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356643079413822527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-80585995640548213822007-08-21T21:27:00.000-04:002007-08-21T21:27:00.000-04:00shitI honestly do not know. It would depend entire...shit<BR/><BR/>I honestly do not know. <BR/><BR/>It would depend entirely on the experiences I had had with the residents of the boarding house.<BR/><BR/>I am people bound, and sensitive to the paths that lead us to where we arrive.<BR/><BR/>what an amazingly provocative question.crazymummahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663148723513574331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-58276774315437944682007-08-21T21:18:00.000-04:002007-08-21T21:18:00.000-04:00Well said anonymous. Well said.Well said anonymous. Well said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-17741556202635937002007-08-21T18:53:00.000-04:002007-08-21T18:53:00.000-04:00This has been an interesting discussion. Cities, ...This has been an interesting discussion. Cities, neighbourhoods, any public space, really, do not have impenetrable boundaries safeguarding the “good” and shutting out the “bad.” Sure, it can be easily realized that Forest Hill, Rosedale, would probably exude a privileged, pristine environment, and a different security altogether different than that experienced in Regent Park, Moss Park, large areas of the Jane-Finch corridor. <BR/><BR/>But, outside of these common understandings, the complexities of this issue become even more intricate when other factors as gender, family, economics, race, come into the mix. Ask a woman walking alone at night, for instance, how she would feel in any one of those aforementioned communities; even walking alone in a fairly upper middle class, diverse, downtown community at a late night hour. She may feel more protected in some areas over others. But there is no guarantee, as with much else in life, that she may come to harm in the downtrodden, sadder part of the city, and walk away unscathed, and unharmed in the beautiful, wealthy neighbourhood. Safety is not a common, fixed experience. Without one’s knowledge, even in our “safe” enclaves, there may be prostitutes living around the corner, a released convict several streets down, a drug addict, or several inhabiting a home a few blocks away. <BR/><BR/>There is that innate, primeval, real need and desire to protect those we love, but sadly, we cannot at all times, and in all situations. Every day, there is that risk of harm, and hurt, at workplaces, at schools, in playgrounds, in the streets, and sadly, unknowingly, even within the sanctity of the home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-72995893139717902832007-08-21T16:58:00.000-04:002007-08-21T16:58:00.000-04:00MplsChica, I really respect your balanced approac...MplsChica, I really respect your balanced approach to this issue. Yes, there is more than one side. And, Yes, challenging our own perceptions and taking into account the rights of *everyone* in a neighbourhood is also valid.<BR/><BR/>Living in an urban center where one is closer to boarding houses like the ones I described, does not automatically translate into safety issues. In fact, we feel very *safe*. I have lived uptown, grew up in a rural village and also spent 2 years in the burbs - and each have their own challenges. Like some of the commenters pointed out above, there are grow houses in the suburbs and other threats like child predators everywhere. Saying that a drug dealer/user or a prostitute will harm my child is not automatically true. Especially if one is a careful parent.<BR/><BR/>And I thought I'd offer one point of clarification about my comment using the term "diversity". I actually meant it in the very literal sense of the word. I like my neighbourhood for the reasons Sage identified, but *also* because it is more culturally/ethnically diverse than many communities in the city. Sorry for not being more explicit/clear on my intention with that term. And, yes, we do celebrate that. My son was the only non-white child (he's mixed heritage) in his preschool before we moved. I was not okay with that.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this great discussion from everyone! I am loving it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-72394213940278533932007-08-21T16:42:00.000-04:002007-08-21T16:42:00.000-04:00I am sure everyone is a victim of their circumstan...I am sure everyone is a victim of their circumstances - but as a parent, my first duty is to protect my children. sure, you have the choice to move to a better neighbourhood, but affordability needs to be looked into too...<BR/><BR/>so yes, I would sign, after taking argyle's trip for a bit ;)<BR/><BR/>and particularly if its a boarding house, well then they can shift up further. drugs are a real problem. i dont want it to be easier for my child to buy crack. reallythe mad mommahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14535453643548976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-84091760760757150362007-08-21T15:58:00.000-04:002007-08-21T15:58:00.000-04:00I must be missing something here - WHEN did crack ...I must be missing something here - WHEN did crack dealers become victims of society? These are people who have made a choice to ruin others lives with their poison. I will do whatever I have to to protect my children from their vile drugs and poor judgement - call me a suburban snob or whatever you'd like, but I'm not going to knowingly place my children in harms way just so I can feel better about my contribution to "diversity". Should I also move next door to a sex offender, since THEY have to live somewhere too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-15121545411882758252007-08-21T15:52:00.000-04:002007-08-21T15:52:00.000-04:00I think raising your children in a bubble would be...I think raising your children in a bubble would be incredibly bad for them. I think that allowing them to see where bad decisions can lead at an early age can help them later in life. My parents didn't shield me from the uh..bad people they knew. They would never have left me unattended, but they didn't say "OH! JOHNNY IS COMING! HIDE THE BABY!" and having seen what these peoples' lives have come to as I've grown up has been a learning experience in and of itself.<BR/>So no, I wouldn't have signed. Some people think that just because it doesn't matter to THEM, it doesn't matter to anyone--and those people infuriate me. There's more to life than property value.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-78767847553452026202007-08-21T15:34:00.000-04:002007-08-21T15:34:00.000-04:00I don't know what I would have done in that positi...I don't know what I would have done in that position. It's not something that I would hope I could decide to pin my name to in just the few minutes it took Mr. Tango to "explain" to me what he was doing and why. My instinct reading this is to say that I wouldn't have signed, but I don't know that I could say that and still be honest with myself.<BR/><BR/>Sure, I want my child(ren) to grow up and see that not everyone has the benefit of a safe and secure upbringing or that not everyone lives happily ever after. But I think I could find a way to bring that point home to them through volunteerism and charity work rather than residing in real close proximity to something that could potentially endanger them.<BR/><BR/>From the sound of your description of the neighborhood, it definitely sounds as though it's a fairly safe neighborhood, so maybe safety isn't as big a concern as it once might have been. But don't the people hard on their luck deserve a safe neighborhood, too? <BR/><BR/>I'm just trying to be honest, both with myself and with you. It doesn't sit well with me to sign something intended to oust people who need all the help they can get from their home simply for property values or because Mr. Tango, compelling argument or not, is clearly disdaining something designed to help the down and out; but on the other hand, my kid(s)' safety is a giant concern to me.<BR/><BR/>I simply don't know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1554628141971852112007-08-21T15:28:00.000-04:002007-08-21T15:28:00.000-04:00Hi, I got your blog off Mothergoosemouse, and I th...Hi, I got your blog off Mothergoosemouse, and I thought it was great. I live in a place that lacks affordable housing, and I write a blog about it as well.<BR/><BR/>I hope you don't mind, but I added you to my page :)<BR/><BR/>-HannaPiscesmama + Onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04638549989193588556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-80762569317535858042007-08-21T14:37:00.000-04:002007-08-21T14:37:00.000-04:00Usually a lurker, but this is such interesting, th...Usually a lurker, but this is such interesting, thoughtful dialogue, thought I'd chime in. I really do admire the thoughtfulness of those who are saying they would not have signed and are ripping on the guy with the petition. I understand your point of view. I live downtown in a large-ish Midwestern city and I am very familiar with all that's been described here. I know that feeling of wanting to challenge oneself to be more accpeting, to understand and live alongside people of all stripes. And I *do* like that about my neighborhood, for the most part.<BR/><BR/>However. The point about how someone's perception may change based on an incident (drug crime, etc.) is a good one and really should not be brushed off so quickly. Our experiences change us, and we can't fault people for that. While I may have compassion for someone who falls into an "unsavory" category because they are a family member or I work with people with similar challenges, my neighbor may feel just the opposite based on a bad experience they've had. It goes both ways. And my position is no more "noble" than my neighbors.<BR/><BR/>Does everyone need to whip out a petition to get the change they want? Nope. Could this guy move? Yep. But none of that means he doesnt have a point in what he's trying to do. What I'm trying to say is he's not so evil, and so far responses here really seem to be vilifying him.<BR/><BR/>That said, again, I do think all responses have been very thoughtful and thought-provoking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-12683572023717772862007-08-21T14:14:00.000-04:002007-08-21T14:14:00.000-04:00Yeah, that's a tough one. I live in a nice little...Yeah, that's a tough one. I live in a nice little suburban area that is slowly deteriorating. In fact, local gang members now like to hang out at a basket ball hoop in a nearby parking lot. Would I just sweep everybody up and move them out? Certainly not. If it's that uncomfortable, we'll leave. Maybe this is what Mr. Argyle needs to do.Michelle Constantinescuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09927443258162528366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-35496217257926764682007-08-21T14:13:00.000-04:002007-08-21T14:13:00.000-04:00I'm withe Reba. You people are nuts. I want drug...I'm withe Reba. You people are nuts. <BR/><BR/>I want drug dealers and hookers away from my children. Ideally, I want them in jail.<BR/><BR/>Of COURSE I would have signed it.<BR/><BR/>Cranston SnordAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-84171035099572988982007-08-21T13:58:00.000-04:002007-08-21T13:58:00.000-04:00I'm sure you all will be "celebrating diversity" u...I'm sure you all will be "celebrating diversity" until something bad happens to one of your kids, or a crack head breaks into your house.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-9539448375810008482007-08-21T13:28:00.000-04:002007-08-21T13:28:00.000-04:00That old charmer, NIMBYism... Oh no, we're all sym...That old charmer, NIMBYism... Oh no, we're all sympathetic, but maybe if they could just move elsewhere to do what they need to do? Ugh. To state what they really want might be ugly, but at least it would be honest. <BR/><BR/>Me, I figure if you really don't want to share your neighbourhood with people of a different stripe, go looking for "your kind" of neighbourhood. Bet those rooming houses were there first. Your neighb has been home to lots of them for a long time. And as for the kids? Guess what? They grow up smart enough to know who to talk to. I grew up in the east end when it was still working class, and there were some people you just smiled at and kept on walking. I also think it doesn't hurt people to see others who live with a different story and a different circumstance. It helps grow understanding and empathy, in the end.kittenpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05215443551546036909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-28717807920278753152007-08-21T13:19:00.000-04:002007-08-21T13:19:00.000-04:00Maybe I'd sign it then move so HE wouldn't be my n...Maybe I'd sign it then move so HE wouldn't be my neighbor anymore :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-22824181104003386482007-08-21T12:52:00.000-04:002007-08-21T12:52:00.000-04:00Bossy thinks this question deserves her undivided ...Bossy thinks this question deserves her undivided sober attention. Good luck with that.BOSSYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12137297805742498961noreply@blogger.com