tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post3575108909546718828..comments2023-11-02T08:09:02.234-04:00Comments on Her Bad Mother: Who's The Dummy, Mummy?Her Bad Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comBlogger190125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-47453553669377412182009-04-22T01:07:00.000-04:002009-04-22T01:07:00.000-04:00Thank you for so eloquently voicing your critique....Thank you for so eloquently voicing your critique. I could not agree more. I have just read the article today, as it was only published in Australia last Sunday. Its copy was provided by one of our single and childless co-workers to another like minded colleague that obviously felt supported by it and compelled to share it with others. I just happened to read it, as my Sunday Age magazine still rests at home unopened - the full time working, pregnant dummy mummy did not have a time to read her weekend paper yet! <br /><br />I feel very strongly that in childless circles the topics of motherhood and parenting are often discriminated against. I too don’t agree with a notion that other topics should rank higher on the ‘acceptable conversation topics’ list. <br /><br />Unfortunately, I happen to work with educated, childless, some single, sexually frustrated, sadly self centred and sour women, who are very happy to converse for hours about house decorating, buying clothes, perfumes, romantic adventures, husbands’/partners’ eating and snoring habits, but strangely get annoyed when I comment about my current pregnancy, and parenting issues with my 5 year old! Somehow their brain totally excludes that particular area of reality. Wake up people: after all procreation, child bearing and upbringing are part of our human existence, whether you want it or not. You may choose to deny it, but the odds are that majority of people around you either have already or will have a family. <br /><br />Also, what happened to the concept of freedom of speech and tolerance? Should not it work both ways? If I can listen to pointless dribbles about curtains matching cabinet handles, why can’t my co-workers at least accept I’m pregnant and allow me to touch on the subject from time to time? After all having a human being grow inside of your body is not exactly a walk in the park. Or is it that talking about it is painful because it reminds people about one more area of their lives they feel consciously or subconsciously unfulfilled about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-13539296280536517682009-03-01T16:31:00.000-05:002009-03-01T16:31:00.000-05:00Amazing post- well thought-out, meaningful, and fa...Amazing post- well thought-out, meaningful, and far more eloquent than the "Rachel Cooke: Kiss My Dimpled Ass" that I would've posted.MrsEmbershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06449087799858570731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-57783433063729000592009-02-23T20:26:00.000-05:002009-02-23T20:26:00.000-05:00Oh my gosh, I am soooo over the whole "Mommy Wars"...Oh my gosh, I am soooo over the whole "Mommy Wars" crap, and it's just as bad to have "Women Wars". Our mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers and beyond suffered through too many years of not having any choices, and then fighting to GET those choices for themselves and us for our generation to turn it around and try to limit each others choices.<BR/><BR/>Pathetic. Can't we all just agree that every woman is lucky enough to have the choice to have children or not, be a working mom or a stay at home mom, and frankly - to listen or care about what each other says. If you don't like the mom-talk, you can very simply not listen. Just like I can blow right past the conversations, blogs, TV and radio programs or other forms of media that I don't care to hear. Easy.supermommyof3https://www.blogger.com/profile/06640220043860968915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-82985557409783570522009-02-17T13:28:00.000-05:002009-02-17T13:28:00.000-05:00More than motherhood/ non-motherhood, isn't enjoyi...More than motherhood/ non-motherhood, isn't enjoying what you do important? Even though I'm not one, I would rather listen to a mom tell stories about a child she is interested in and enjoys, than listen to some moms go on endlessly about how having children has just ENDED their lives, and they have no time for anything 'productive' anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-74598570860914073222009-02-16T19:14:00.000-05:002009-02-16T19:14:00.000-05:00This is just too funny! There are people who would...This is just too funny! There are people who would think that her going on about traveling to foreign lands and how fulfilled she is in her job is boring and smug. Bottom line, everyone has different interests. <BR/><BR/>Mothers are obviously going to be interested in their children (if not, heaven help us!) and I can only assume she hasn`t made proper use of the internet if she doesn`t realize that there are groups for every imaginable interest . . . including motherhood!<BR/><BR/>Also, this whole "feminism equals being manly" thing is just dumb. We`re the only gender that can have babies . . . why not celebrate that? Geez.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and if she comes by here to read comments, PLEASE don`t click on my link . . . it goes to my personal blog where I *gasp* talk about my kids (as well as living in a foreign country, freelance writing and cooking).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-38949143231433316062009-02-16T18:20:00.000-05:002009-02-16T18:20:00.000-05:00I thought the whole point of feminism was to be ab...I thought the whole point of feminism was to be able to choose what the heck you want to do with your life, be it working in a factory, breaking the glass ceiling, becoming liberated sexually... OR being a teacher, a secretary, a mother. <BR/><BR/>More on that <A HREF="http://daily-della.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">here</A> because I apparently can't just post a response, I have to write an entire POST in response. :P <BR/><BR/>Rachel Cooke shockingly said in her post: <I>Once upon a time, educated women fought to separate their identities from the ideal of mother, knowing that until the two came to be seen as wholly distinct they would never be taken seriously; and, in any case, who wants to be defined by only one aspect of their life?</I> <BR/><BR/>Say what? You're saying, as an educated woman, I should be defined as solely that? You're saying that I cannot be taken seriously if I also consider myself a mother, even if my body has physically gone through the process of becoming a parent? <BR/><BR/>But wait!.... who wants to be defined by only one aspect of their life?!<BR/><BR/>Also irritating, Rachel went to a site that was ABOUT babies, and then complained that they were encouraging to share anecdotes about their babies. WTH?<BR/><BR/>Finally, her statement that <I>For men, it just confirms what many of them secretly think, which is that women, bottom line, are only really interested in one thing, and that is making babies, and why should they be promoted or taken seriously or paid well?</I> ... if Rachel is capable of telling the difference between so-called Dummy Mummies and mothers-she-doesn't-disdain, is she precluding men from the capability of telling the difference between child-obsessed Dummy Mummies and sneering, intolerant feminists who are in no uncertain terms NOT interested in making babies? So now she is both intolerant AND misanthropic?<BR/><BR/>Finally... I ask you... is feminism about being as close to the standard "manly" ideal as possible, or about being free to define womanly in whatever way you want to define it?Dellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06397062869413109155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-20474303458433986192009-02-16T10:33:00.000-05:002009-02-16T10:33:00.000-05:00Thanks for this. Polly Vernon's article on the sa...Thanks for this. Polly Vernon's article on the same day was even worse...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-39833408561294619602009-02-15T16:38:00.000-05:002009-02-15T16:38:00.000-05:00I think the point that she's taken her displeasure...I think the point that she's taken her displeasure with a certain type of behavior she encounters and made it sound like it's an epidemic worthy of knocking a whole community - a community vulnerable and undervalued - is a valid one. It's not like she's slamming rock stars for their indulgent life style. She's slamming mothers for caring too much and sharing too much. The bigotry comment was dead on. "I don't care what you do in your own home, but don't talk about it or shove that "lifestyle" in my face." Be a mom if you want, but don't flaunt it, don't be proud, don't be loud. Um, okay.mom2boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00784436196685595115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-8924339269174061802009-02-15T08:57:00.000-05:002009-02-15T08:57:00.000-05:00Damn woman--YOU ROCK! As an educated, SAHM (for t...Damn woman--YOU ROCK! As an educated, SAHM (for the most part; I do have a part-time job in my kid's school) I applaud what you wrote. It was eloquent AND right on the money. Thank you for being the voice of women who CHOSE motherhood as a career.cakeburnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405378363107324973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-61129634007046956792009-02-15T05:55:00.000-05:002009-02-15T05:55:00.000-05:00my question to these kinds of articles is-- how do...my question to these kinds of articles is-- how does there continue to BE a society if there are no mothers to continue making people?<BR/>Denying the role of motherhood/parenthood is equal to denying the humaness (is that a word) of experience. We aren't robots who ceate more of ourselves in a factory, nor is this "Brave New World" where we are grown in jars.<BR/>To be human means we emerged from our mothers and that experience is worthy of praise, discussion, whatever.<BR/>And you're right--don't like it? Don't listen. But DON'T deny it.Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15054176279624205909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-9001681457930103832009-02-14T15:26:00.000-05:002009-02-14T15:26:00.000-05:00Regarding the speculation on the word "dummy" in t...Regarding the speculation on the word "dummy" in the title of Cooke's post, my take is that "dummy" is used intentionally. To use a visual example - some children walk around constantly with a pacifier in their mouths, and barely take it out to eat or drink, to the perceived detriment of the child's development. They are permanently attached to their "dummy". Substitute in women obsessing about their own motherhood and mothering existence, to the exclusion of all other independent thought and discussion, etc, and you have Cooke's view of mothers constantly expounding on motherhood. And in my opinion, Cooke's title is absolutely degrading and overwhelmingly negative to mothers.<BR/><BR/>I am sorry for the women that are degraded for choosing to not become mothers, as I am sorry for those of us who are dismissed for choosing to be stay-at-home mothers. We as human beings should remember that everyone is deserving of respect and tolerance, and an attempt at understanding.<BR/><BR/>As for the commentary from people who are not mothers (perhaps not yet, perhaps not ever), and their offense at the comments such as "until you are a mother ... not know tiredness..." etc, etc., please do not forget that many mothers have viewed life from both sides of pre- and post-motherhood. Many of us have worked, and worked very hard, and know first-hand that without children it is a very different existence, and is often much easier than the post-child existence, whether mom is at home full-time or working full-time, or somewhere else along the spectrum. And life is more complicated after children, but the rewards are wonderful and special, as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-38635738460446877632009-02-14T12:37:00.000-05:002009-02-14T12:37:00.000-05:00This is a really tremendous post. Thank you for wr...This is a really tremendous post. Thank you for writing it.<BR/><BR/>I hate all of the women coming down on other women stuff. Isn't the whole point of feminism that we can all choose what it is we want to do, be it career, motherhood, or both?<BR/><BR/>Obviously it's not as simple as that. There are shades of gray and sexism is everywhere, but attacking other women, as she does, isn't the answer.Stimeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09685801693683588805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-43843904029262398042009-02-14T00:47:00.000-05:002009-02-14T00:47:00.000-05:00Bravo, mama. I hate that people have such a narro...Bravo, mama. <BR/><BR/>I hate that people have such a narrow conception of feminism.<BR/><BR/>Feminism is about Freedom.<BR/><BR/>Freedom = choice.<BR/><BR/>If you say that you can only be a feminist IF you make a certain choice, then that negates the whole movement. It leaves us with no choice at all. <BR/><BR/>Dear Rachel Cooke... what on earth makes you think you are the spokesperson for a movement you clearly have a loose interpretation of at best. Rejecting motherhood is SO second wave, honey. Welcome to the future, where women have the CHOICE to stay at home OR work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-18355452357388185972009-02-13T23:30:00.000-05:002009-02-13T23:30:00.000-05:00Thank you for writing this.Thank you for writing this.Rachel Bostwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17915066381658225713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-53977365646413329382009-02-13T21:01:00.000-05:002009-02-13T21:01:00.000-05:00AMEN! This was pure genius.AMEN! <BR/><BR/>This was pure genius.Texashollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17982077447405220888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-22101026772643677412009-02-13T20:19:00.000-05:002009-02-13T20:19:00.000-05:00*standing ovation* ~ Fabulous rant. congrats on 5...*standing ovation* ~ Fabulous rant. congrats on 5 Star Friday linkdom.WeaselMommahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695797746467444304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-51130795253716100472009-02-13T18:32:00.001-05:002009-02-13T18:32:00.001-05:00Catherine, I'll offer my answer on a way that I, a...Catherine, I'll offer my answer on a way that I, as a non-mother, have been degraded by mothers. Let me say first, though, that in general I agree with you rather than Rachel Cooke--I enjoy the company of my parent friends a lot, I love hearing about their kids, just as I would love hearing about anything that my friends find valuable in their lives. They're my friends; that's what we do.<BR/><BR/>I am not the same anon as above--I'm posting anon because I don't want to start anything with my family. I'm a regular reader.<BR/><BR/>The moms who have degraded me are actually closer to me than my friends... they're my mother and my mother-in-law. Both are extremely disappointed in my decision not to have kids. I say "my" decision but my husband, of course, had a say in this too. However, he isn't criticized by either Mom or MIL. They save all that for me.<BR/><BR/>Mom says I'm immature; MIL says I'm selfish. Both have actually wept during conversations about this topic. Mom employs a lot of "you just won't understand until..." rhetoric, insisting that she knows me better than I can know myself. She believes I'm lying to myself about how happy I am now, and mistaken about how unhappy I'd be as a parent. For her, the love I offer the rest of the world through volunteering counts for nothing. My career and my artistic pursuits count for nothing. My close relationships with friends count for nothing. There's only one thing that will make me an adult in her eyes.<BR/><BR/>MIL is more concerned about the dynasty: I'm letting her down because I'm not continuing her family line. I'm wasting her son's potential (never mind that he doesn't want kids either--she thinks that a real woman would talk him into it.)<BR/><BR/>I really dislike the pressure, but more than that, I dislike the opinion, often implied and sometimes stated outright, that none of what I do is as valuable as mothering. That I'm not a real adult. I see both Mom and MIL as mothers whose identity is bound up too strongly in their kids--and I think they find my choice threatening to their own self-esteem, as if I'm saying that they should have been something other than mothers. <BR/><BR/>I don't think that. I think it's great that women have all kinds of choices now. I applaud the mothers I know, and I applaud the non-mothers equally. I applaud and respect anyone who does what they love.<BR/><BR/>Unless, of course, they can't pay me the same courtesy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-3855189617899143262009-02-13T18:32:00.000-05:002009-02-13T18:32:00.000-05:00Catherine, I'll offer my answer on a way that I, a...Catherine, I'll offer my answer on a way that I, as a non-mother, have been degraded by mothers. Let me say first, though, that in general I agree with you rather than Rachel Cooke--I enjoy the company of my parent friends a lot, I love hearing about their kids, just as I would love hearing about anything that my friends find valuable in their lives. They're my friends; that's what we do.<BR/><BR/>I am not the same anon as above--I'm posting anon because I don't want to start anything with my family. I'm a regular reader.<BR/><BR/>The moms who have degraded me are actually closer to me than my friends... they're my mother and my mother-in-law. Both are extremely disappointed in my decision not to have kids. I say "my" decision but my husband, of course, had a say in this too. However, he isn't criticized by either Mom or MIL. They save all that for me.<BR/><BR/>Mom says I'm immature; MIL says I'm selfish. Both have actually wept during conversations about this topic. Mom employs a lot of "you just won't understand until..." rhetoric, insisting that she knows me better than I can know myself. She believes I'm lying to myself about how happy I am now, and mistaken about how unhappy I'd be as a parent. For her, the love I offer the rest of the world through volunteering counts for nothing. My career and my artistic pursuits count for nothing. My close relationships with friends count for nothing. There's only one thing that will make me an adult in her eyes.<BR/><BR/>MIL is more concerned about the dynasty: I'm letting her down because I'm not continuing her family line. I'm wasting her son's potential (never mind that he doesn't want kids either--she thinks that a real woman would talk him into it.)<BR/><BR/>I really dislike the pressure, but more than that, I dislike the opinion, often implied and sometimes stated outright, that none of what I do is as valuable as mothering. That I'm not a real adult. I see both Mom and MIL as mothers whose identity is bound up too strongly in their kids--and I think they find my choice threatening to their own self-esteem, as if I'm saying that they should have been something other than mothers. <BR/><BR/>I don't think that. I think it's great that women have all kinds of choices now. I applaud the mothers I know, and I applaud the non-mothers equally. I applaud and respect anyone who does what they love.<BR/><BR/>Unless, of course, they can't pay me the same courtesy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-66183621818351186572009-02-13T18:02:00.000-05:002009-02-13T18:02:00.000-05:00You are being featured on Five Star Friday!http://...You are being featured on Five Star Friday!<BR/>http://www.fivestarfriday.com/2009/02/five-star-friday-edition-41.htmlElan Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023867307505601913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1287298130972167472009-02-13T17:04:00.000-05:002009-02-13T17:04:00.000-05:00I wonder if this article would be as offensive if ...I wonder if this article would be as offensive if the title were "Binky Mummies" or "Paci Mummies"? <BR/>Yes, the content would still be offensive, but in British English, a dummy is a pacifier, as well as a stupid person. As far as just the title goes, I read it more as "Mummies whose kids have dummies", but the word dummy could have been deliberately chosen for its dual meanings.KThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09521176066168246516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-73849637060564097792009-02-13T16:34:00.000-05:002009-02-13T16:34:00.000-05:00Why so defensive, Rachel Cooke? It sounds like som...Why so defensive, Rachel Cooke? It sounds like someone is trying to justify her lifestyle choices. What a narrow-minded dipshit. One of those "feminists" who don't know the first thing about feminism or what it means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-26483687057180175492009-02-13T12:18:00.000-05:002009-02-13T12:18:00.000-05:00my view of feminism is one that affords women to m...my view of feminism is one that affords women to make their own choices in life; not be told that they mush choose a certain path. so why is it that those of us who make the choice to be mothers are judged unfavorably? why is my choice to be a mom less valued than if i had chosen to not have kids or to remain in the workforce after having kids? in my mind, it is no more feminist to tell me that i should choose to work outside the home than it is to tell me that i shouldn't. My life, my choice. And further, why is it assumed that when I chose to become a mother, my brain disappeared? i am no less intelligent now that i'm a mom than i was when i was while getting my ivy league degree. i hate the assumption that because i chose to be a full time mom, that i'm not every bit as intelligent or interesting as women who made different choices. choice is the operative word here. the world needs all kinds. and we're lucky that we live in a world where we can choose to be a mom or not; to work outside the home or not. and if we could all recognize that and not judge each other for these choices, the world would be a much better place.ChefSarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13365291022787372989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-54169107887670238952009-02-13T12:06:00.000-05:002009-02-13T12:06:00.000-05:00amen. what a horrible woman and what a horrible ar...amen. what a horrible woman and what a horrible article. thank you for standing up for mothers everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-31181612537935168102009-02-13T11:53:00.000-05:002009-02-13T11:53:00.000-05:00I really am going to have to write another post ab...I really am going to have to write another post about this.<BR/><BR/>Renee, I said in the post that I understood (and have experience) feeling bored by or frustrated by mothertalk. But I stand by my argument that it is TOXIC for women - for anyone - to use that kind of social frustration as an excuse to call for the silencing of women, of MOTHERS. Which is what she did. She did not just call us dummies. She called our discourse 'sickening' and 'fetishistic' and suggested that it was counter-feminist. She called for it to STOP.<BR/><BR/>Would we brush it off if someone publicly called out another community - an ethnic community? the LGBT community? the elderly - for their discourse? Call it sickening? Sure, some moms are insufferable. But so are some of EVERYBODY.<BR/><BR/>I DO think it's interesting, the question that Anonymous raised, about whether there's something related to patriarchy that has us sniping at at each other. But I still think that Cooke's approach warrants calling out for its toxicity. Don't like moms? Fine. Just don't tell us to shut up.Her Bad Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-17676385467876292582009-02-13T10:33:00.000-05:002009-02-13T10:33:00.000-05:00Oh - sorry - one more thing. Calling the mummies ...Oh - sorry - one more thing. Calling the mummies "dummies," though, that was just plan mean and undermined her argument tremendously. I suspect, though,that she was just trying to get attention that way...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com