tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post116232783394449304..comments2023-11-02T08:09:02.234-04:00Comments on Her Bad Mother: Rooms With A SkewHer Bad Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1163705310598946292006-11-16T14:28:00.000-05:002006-11-16T14:28:00.000-05:00The thing that may be missing from this all (o.k. ...The thing that may be missing from this all (o.k. - I didn't read all 49 comments) is class and race. I learned about the conference through listening to the MojoMom podcast (which I love) but what struck me, before reading any of this, is that this "movement" seems very middle class and white -- so I feel uncomfortable saying "mothers..." when it really might mean "white, middle class mothers" (probably who don't have the work and have the luxury of time...) I HATE the phrase "mothers today"...I dont' think that speaks for a lot of moms out there- including those without the language skills or financial means or TIME to join the "blogworld" conversation...aren't, for example, immigrant mothers mothers, too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162791912304364842006-11-06T00:45:00.000-05:002006-11-06T00:45:00.000-05:00MOM101,I agree with your statement regarding opini...MOM101,<BR/>I agree with your statement regarding opinion vs. judgement. I too am bothered by the climb to a moral high ground demonstrated when statements such as "If you don't breast feed you don't deserve to be a mother" are used as if they are a weapon against a difference of opinion.<BR/><BR/>Fine that we all don't share the same opinion, we need diversity in our thoughts and actions for without it, we would have a stagnant society, but people perch on superiority? "Houston we've got a problem!"<BR/><BR/>Aviva and I were supposed to present at this conference and ended up having a time conflict as sadly we could not be in two countries at one time so we ended up withdrawing our paper.<BR/><BR/>Each of us mothers is unique. Being unique is neither good nor bad. It just is. <BR/><BR/>So why can't we just Be? *sigh*Devrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10264076539570620156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162648537597200772006-11-04T08:55:00.000-05:002006-11-04T08:55:00.000-05:00You never cease to impress me - and to make me lov...You never cease to impress me - and to make me love you more. <BR/><BR/>I know exactly what you mean about feeling the need to be contrarian. It's in my nature. I have to fight it - sometimes my knee-jerk is to oppose, just for the sake of debate, particularly when I'm being pigeonholed into a particular role or set of values. <BR/><BR/>I think it's wonderful that you asked those questions. I've been thinking a lot about commercialism (as you know) and I find it laughable that advertising somehow compromises you. It's an opinion spouted by those who don't have ads and don't realize that you pay not one lick of attention to the gif in the corner. <BR/><BR/>I also have been thinking a good deal about judgment. I find myself highly opinionated but perhaps not judgmental. Opinionated is "everyone should try breastfeeding." Judgmental is "if you don't breastfeed you don't deserve to be a mom." Big difference.Mom101https://www.blogger.com/profile/15468524489744839899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162645161457261262006-11-04T07:59:00.000-05:002006-11-04T07:59:00.000-05:00I liked your post, I agree and can sympathize (if ...I liked your post, I agree and can sympathize (if that's the right word) with your feelings. I have some very conservative views and some liberal ones, and I don't feel I fit into many discussion groups because of that.<BR/><BR/>Regarding consumerism... what's wrong with making money? As long as you don't have orphans in sweatshops turning out your product (and if you pay them, then go ahead) there's nothing wrong with money.<BR/><BR/>See, a conservative at heart...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162582361482173492006-11-03T14:32:00.000-05:002006-11-03T14:32:00.000-05:00I get it completely. MetroDad used the apt word "...I get it completely. MetroDad used the apt word "stifling." I tend to hang out on the fringes of groups because I intensely dislike all the assumptions made about my conformity. I've even stopped reading some blogs because of how exasperating I found the assumptions of uniform political opinion among readers. I think I hate it most because it squelches honesty in relationships. When unmerited assumptions are made about my beliefs, it introduces a situation where I can only speak as a real person if I interrupt the flow of conversation and say, "No! wait! That's not what I think!" I can do that, but it brings conversation to a grinding halt and makes everyone uneasy, and it is difficult to resume after that. I hate situations that pressure me to be fake for the comfort of the crowd.<BR/><BR/>I can deal with it by not going, or going and remaining aloof. I don't nod, or "hmm," or smile in agreement. I have to psych myself up for that. It doesn't build relationships, but it does make people stop and think before they assume things when they talk to me. At least that frees me to be my real self.Sharon L. Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06387774344892567897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162497994050262292006-11-02T15:06:00.000-05:002006-11-02T15:06:00.000-05:00Hey Catherine,(Once again, good to finally meet yo...Hey Catherine,<BR/><BR/>(Once again, good to finally meet you in person at the conference!) As you and I discussed (however briefly) after the session with Ann Crittenden et al, I agree that more of a public disagreement over some of those issues could have been a very positive thing. I do believe there has to be a place for "healthy judgement", I guess you could call it. Where would be if we all agreed with each other, anyway? It's disagreement that leads us to the changing of laws, and of attitudes, for instance. And like you and I experienced earlier this fall with the urbanmom debate, we all have different beliefs about this thing called "blogging" that are all valid and should be held up for review.<BR/><BR/>To echo Ann, it's too bad you weren't able to join us for the full panel discussion on "mommy blogging" There was much post discussion regarding the different divisions between bloggers and blogging politics (there you go, that word just for you!:). It ended up being a rousing dialogue of how the lines of difference actually do matter in the blogging world. Whether it be a class, race, ability, age, or political difference, we continue to discuss these lines between us and I hope figure out a way to work on something together. Maybe that's just my feel-good thought of the day, but it is my hope that a full-on disagreement and even argument over these issues can lead us to a better place.crabbykatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17065499815987962102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162492008224935072006-11-02T13:26:00.000-05:002006-11-02T13:26:00.000-05:00I Love you!I Love you!Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00242117999775244672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162473899068031202006-11-02T08:24:00.000-05:002006-11-02T08:24:00.000-05:00You know I say always blame the patriarchy. Its th...You know I say always blame the patriarchy. Its the best solution really. Sometimes I just turn to my husband and blame him directly. Then I realise he's a visible minority, clearly oppressed, so I ponder what it means for him to be oppressing me then it goes back to the patriarchy. lets just get those "tool of the patriarchy" shirts printed up. <BR/>anyone else in?moplanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998309937928231527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162435453742625312006-11-01T21:44:00.000-05:002006-11-01T21:44:00.000-05:00P.S. I'm going to Blogher next summer, though. I'm...P.S. I'm going to Blogher next summer, though. I'm gowing up, you see. ;)GIRL'S GONE CHILDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162435395407737832006-11-01T21:43:00.000-05:002006-11-01T21:43:00.000-05:00Amen, thank you and YES. I have always felt like I...Amen, thank you and YES. I have always felt like I am able to be myself most of all with men. I do not censor myself or my ideas. I can disagree and not be taken as some kind of "bitch" who's "talking shit." Hence, in my experience as a woman in the company of women I feel as though I am expected to nod and agree and say "totally, uh-huh" OVER and OVER and OVER. <BR/><BR/>Which I shouldn't do. Instead I find myself resenting women and wanting not to surround myself with them. This makes me sad but this has been my experience. <BR/><BR/>This is also why I stayed away from Blogher and why I still don't have a group of girlfriends... beyond this community.<BR/><BR/>Good for you. Muah!GIRL'S GONE CHILDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130764109593048451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162420656760862502006-11-01T17:37:00.000-05:002006-11-01T17:37:00.000-05:00I think in our culture right now there are mountai...I think in our culture right now there are mountains of assumptions made about one another. If I believe in X than it follows as the night the day that I must believe in an enormous conglomerate of other rather extreme ideas. It doesn't make me feel good to be 'accepted' in the shared belief group or 'raged at' by the opposite group. More and more I am aware that we are moving toward a kind of group think where a trigger statement can have people reacting without thinking or listening. Blogging is by its nature reflective. Even if a blog is controversial it is frightening that there is so little respectful, kind and thoughtful response given. We scream at one another's words like the people on tv who are clearly not ever going to reach an understanding. We don't give each other space to try things on or be vulnerable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162416132181972642006-11-01T16:22:00.000-05:002006-11-01T16:22:00.000-05:00Is it too simplistic to say that without debate we...Is it too simplistic to say that without debate we'll never learn anything?<BR/><BR/>And isn't that what prompted "devil's advocate"?Grannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17283823157675990935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162413473109747872006-11-01T15:37:00.000-05:002006-11-01T15:37:00.000-05:00Now that my toddler has finally fallen asleep, I c...Now that my toddler has finally fallen asleep, I can log in to say that I really liked this blog entry. Because I understood it. And by 'it', I mean your feelings. Exactly.<BR/><BR/>While I like to be liked as much as the next person, I get really annoyed when my thoughts and opinions on a subject are treated by those around me as a foregone conclusion. It's like it's never even occurred to others that people might differ in their own thought patterns and conclusions. And that, perhaps, their 'black and white' view of the world might actually contain a lot of grey that needs to be examined. In my opinion, of course. ;-)<BR/><BR/>Again, great blog entry.ewe are herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13339650361453626546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162412188421797922006-11-01T15:16:00.000-05:002006-11-01T15:16:00.000-05:00It seems basic and fundamental that inherent in th...It seems basic and fundamental that inherent in the very definition of feminist would be the words: respect the individual choices of different women with different experiences. Sounds like a touch position you were in there.OhTheJoyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05031731198115388411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162410587244444692006-11-01T14:49:00.000-05:002006-11-01T14:49:00.000-05:00I've never felt comfortable in a big group of peop...I've never felt comfortable in a big group of people who are all nodding in agreement. I feel like there has to be someone there questioning the topic, and if no one else is doing it, then it must be me. That's probably why I don't go to church.<BR/><BR/>I'm generally agreeable, but not if I feel like I'm being told that I'm expected to believe certain things. Then I tend to do just the opposite out of rebellion.<BR/><BR/>And I can't wait to see a post about business and consumerism, and why it can mesh with feminist beliefs. When I read that part, my mouth fell open. Why can't ideals use commerce for their own good?Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07345875955750219033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162406499718592252006-11-01T13:41:00.001-05:002006-11-01T13:41:00.001-05:00It's exactly how I feel about magazines like Mothe...It's exactly how I feel about magazines like Mothering. I might agree with some of the pricipals of "organic" mothering, but I don't want it to turn into EVERYONE who doesn't do things this way is wrong.<BR/><BR/>I've written many a strongly worded letter.toyfotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17925976386177377987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162406462092430422006-11-01T13:41:00.000-05:002006-11-01T13:41:00.000-05:00Hey, Catherine!I really enjoyed meeting you at The...Hey, Catherine!<BR/><BR/>I really enjoyed meeting you at The Motherlode, right before the blogging session. It was such a bummer that your session on Mothering in the Academe ran at the exact same time as the blogging panel so that you weren't actually able to hear what Dani, Marla, Jen, Andrea, and I had to say -- and how the discussion went afterwards (although I know you popped in just as the session was wrapping up). There was some really thoughtful discussion that brought in the very points that I know you would want to have seen raised and Jen made some points during her presentation about commerce not being a bad thing; about mothers looking for creative ways to generate income via their blogs, but doing so on their terms (and not just getting the crumbs being offered by some marketers). <BR/><BR/>Andrea is going to be posting everyone's presentations over at http://www.thewholemom.com as soon as she comes up for air.<BR/><BR/>BTW -- I attended a lot of the panels (including a supposedly non-controversial play about birth that ended up in a very heated discussion with some people practically shouting one another down) so I didn't feel the same "toe the line" vibe that you did. I hate that vibe and I don't play well in groups when it emerges.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this very thought-provoking post.<BR/><BR/>AnnAnn Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10287853845161180133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162405019649982872006-11-01T13:16:00.000-05:002006-11-01T13:16:00.000-05:00I suppose I'm officially no longer a lurker at Her...I suppose I'm officially no longer a lurker at Her Bad Mother... hi =)<BR/><BR/>This post really resonated with me - I think there's a very fine line between: (1) appreciating and enjoying a group that shares assumptions and view points and comes from a common ground, and (2) feeling so comfortable in the uh-huhs and of-courses that you never question those view points, or worse, are derogatory towards those who do not come from that comfortable group.<BR/><BR/>Which is to say I think comfort zones are very healthy and happy but you have to know that's what they are and be ok with people politely challenging them every once in a while, in order to keep your sanity and open-mindedness (says me).<BR/><BR/>And the real point here is that I think you captured and expressed this boundary quite well in this post =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162400802412327472006-11-01T12:06:00.000-05:002006-11-01T12:06:00.000-05:00Have I ever felt boxed in by expectations?LOLOf co...Have I ever felt boxed in by expectations?<BR/><BR/>LOL<BR/><BR/>Of course!<BR/><BR/>I don't think I've met too many people who wait to get to know you before forming an opinion about who you are simply by how you look, where you are and what you are doing.<BR/><BR/>If I had a dollar for every person I've ever surprised when they figured out I am who I am not who they think I must be, I could finish renovating my house next week.<BR/><BR/>Not to mention being a Blue in the Red. Oh the assumptions that leads to, not the least of which is that, as my very own president said, I am willfully ignorant and naive.<BR/><BR/>I am often contrary, very opinionated, and must work very hard to be "socially acceptable."<BR/><BR/>I think you were not curmudgeonly. At least not from the sounds of it. I have no idea how you acted, since sadly I wasn't there. I think ti is helpful to take a step back, play devil's advocate and explore a POV before commiting to it.<BR/><BR/>That you do it is a positive reflection on your ability to live mindfully and decide, ultimately, what you do think, all on your own.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162400372091529782006-11-01T11:59:00.000-05:002006-11-01T11:59:00.000-05:00I was nodding my head through all of this. I under...I was nodding my head through all of this. I understand where you are coming from completely. I hate it when you get boxed into something - and the expectation is that you agree with everything they are saying.<BR/>I hate that. I hate it in motherhood and in life in general. I felt that way about a meeting I attended at work the other day. <BR/>Sooooo frustrating.Laural Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08459584652802529868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162396087856196652006-11-01T10:48:00.000-05:002006-11-01T10:48:00.000-05:00I have to say that I'm with you here. I very much...I have to say that I'm with you here. I very much want to be liked and end up being agreeable in most situations (although my comments are more along these line: "of course!", "absolutely!" or "uh-huh, uh-huh"). The only instance where I am not agreeable is when I feel, for some reason, that I have to be. I do not like 'having' to do anything, and I can become quite stubborn. I always use the example that I love to read, but tell me that I have to read a book for a class (even a book that I like!) and I all of a sudden have no interest in reading it.<BR/><BR/>I also get weirded out when you're sitting in a room full of a cross-section of people and no one has a dissenting opinion? Weird. WEIRD!<BR/><BR/>Ok, so this rambling answer is just my way of saying - no you weren't too curmudgeonly. I would have felt the same. I think it's hard to form an intelligent opinion unless you first examine all aspects of a topic. Despite all the good that this conference had to offer, it didn't seem to do that.Run ANChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088821030860597465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162394946345530942006-11-01T10:29:00.000-05:002006-11-01T10:29:00.000-05:00As always, an intelligent and thoughtful post, Cat...As always, an intelligent and thoughtful post, Catherine. And having spent several years working in politics in Washington, DC, I know exactly what you're talking about in regard to the near-tyrannical tsunami of forced consensus. I've worked with both hard-core conservatives and hard-core liberals, and I found them both equally stifling in terms of accepting differing opinions and allowing constructive discourse. It's why I left that damn city and why I no longer tolerate that type of single-minded thinking in any aspect of my life. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Makes the world a much more interesting place, don't you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162394417401342852006-11-01T10:20:00.000-05:002006-11-01T10:20:00.000-05:00Dearest Catherine,Whenever I read your blog, I alw...Dearest Catherine,<BR/>Whenever I read your blog, I always learn so much and nod along with the points that I "get" and I find myself trying to learn more about the things I don't know much about.<BR/><BR/>I think your train of thought is correct, we won't always agree and that's okay!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162393193387662772006-11-01T09:59:00.000-05:002006-11-01T09:59:00.000-05:00Groupthink - perhaps it is more likely to occur wh...Groupthink - perhaps it is more likely to occur when a perceived "disadvantaged" group gets together? <BR/><BR/>I was in the PhD program at Big University in Social Work and I found a similar vibe. There was a lot of peer pressure to think along one vein. <BR/><BR/>For paid work I am in the field of children's mental health and with Monkeydad in, omig-d, the corporate world, I have a foot in each kingdom. Or queendom. And funnily enough, sometimes the lefty world has more stereotypes about the business-y world than the reverse.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if it is getting older (gah...) but I am more interested in the grey areas and this "and" that rather than this "or" that. My politics/beliefs skew all over the map depending upon the issue. Issues are messy and not so easily put into a particular box.<BR/><BR/>Some groups who are alternative end up being more rigid with a "one right answer" epistemology instead of a more embracing one. Damn that enlightenment!Sandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03185856683761789420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1162386825399397222006-11-01T08:13:00.000-05:002006-11-01T08:13:00.000-05:00Hey Mad! Your comment totally made sense. It was t...Hey Mad! Your comment totally made sense. It was the thing that I was concerned about in reflecting upon my discomfort - that it wasn't fair for me to get snippy about an assumed politics (a politics that I share, btw), especially when, as I said, such shared spaces are so important.<BR/><BR/>That said - it was an academic conference (or was primarily billed as such), not an activist meeting (although there were certainly panels directed toward activism) hosted by the Association for Research on Mothering, which one *might* expect to express a greater variety of perspectives. (Although again with the parenthetical comment - I didn't attend all of the panels... it may be the case that some panels were less homogenous. But the tone of some of the plenary sessions was certainly based on certain assumptions.) <BR/><BR/>Anyhoo, as I said above, I'm aware that a big part of this was just me feeling constrained, and that that feeling does not necessarily mean that there was something fundamentally wrong with the conference. It was a positive environment that yielded much positive discussion.Her Bad Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.com