tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post116010118655099266..comments2023-11-02T08:09:02.234-04:00Comments on Her Bad Mother: Let's Talk About SexHer Bad Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160670363643014002006-10-12T12:26:00.000-04:002006-10-12T12:26:00.000-04:00Your husband sounds a lot like me (with the influe...Your husband sounds a lot like me (with the influences). It's really tough for a fahter of a daughter. It's like you know information and you want to shield your own daughter from it.Creative-Type Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13594687030412942701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160437459356757552006-10-09T19:44:00.000-04:002006-10-09T19:44:00.000-04:00Personally, I don't think there is any way to avoi...Personally, I don't think there is any way to avoid the hyper-sensitivity to body image that comes with adolescence. It's hormonal and every girl will need to find her way through it. As Moms, we should be open, understanding, and aware. <BR/><BR/>That said, when did it become wrong to want to look your best? I dress my daughter (OK, she's two) in cute clothes and pretty bathing suits. I style her hair and tell her we're making her hair pretty. Is this going to ruin her? I think it will help her learn to take pride in her appearance, to find her own style. <BR/><BR/>Modeling behavior is essential, but it's not necessarily modeling the "I don't care what other people say, my body is fine the way it is" attitude. It's also modeling a healthy lifestyle. I am about 30 pounds overweight now and I feel the effects of it daily. And it sucks. I talk about it in front of my kids. I tell them if I eat this whole bag of cookies - like I WANT to - I'm going to gain more weight and possibly end up with diabetes because it runs in my family. I want them to know that it's important to take care of themselves and it's OK to want to look attractive. Don't we all feel better about ourselves when we look fabulous? Or am I wrong about that?Shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12115868919422169439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160411796604198272006-10-09T12:36:00.000-04:002006-10-09T12:36:00.000-04:00OH! Rats! Comes from being interrupted. Sorry.My p...OH! Rats! Comes from being interrupted. Sorry.<BR/><BR/>My point, and from your paragraph where you want sexuality to unfold innocently, is that IMO it so rarely does. It seems like these things come on with a bang, whether from an internal or external source. As with so many things, there is so little preparation that sets up for an okay "in the moment" experience. Timing. Because timing so rarely lines up for "ideal."<BR/><BR/>I want my girls at the end of the day to know that the sexuality doesn't define them. They may not get to utterly define the sexuality either. Same goes for me.<BR/><BR/>And I love them because they are utterly loveable, unconditionally, no matter what.<BR/><BR/>I don't want sex to be about power, anymore than I want it to be about violence (per GCC's post the other day). But it depends on how we mean power. So many take it to mean control.<BR/><BR/>My daughters will hopefully know themselves as Capable. Able. Loved.<BR/><BR/>And that hoepfully makes the rest...manageable.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160411418535113072006-10-09T12:30:00.000-04:002006-10-09T12:30:00.000-04:00I guess you don't want to know what happens when y...I guess you don't want to know what happens when <A HREF="http://theartfulflower.blogspot.com/2006/09/when-you-seach-for-girls.html" REL="nofollow">you search for girls</A>. ;)<BR/><BR/>As for the main point.<BR/><BR/>Hmmm. I don't know.<BR/><BR/>Gloria's answer sounds great. It's a nice theory.<BR/><BR/>But.<BR/><BR/>I think it isn't really quite possible.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate that she doesn't exclude the fact that each search for "whole and positive sexuality" is an individual journey. And that we each find different definitions. At least, I *think* she doesn't exclude that.<BR/><BR/>I don't think "whole and positive" has to mean "outwardly accepting sexual being who is sexually active." KWIM?<BR/><BR/>And I'm sure she accepts that. Right?<BR/><BR/>I think what it all means is to find your own definition and accept and be comfortable with that. Right?<BR/><BR/>My mother set an example. I made a different decision. She decided what she thought was right, but it really meant "right for her."<BR/><BR/>My daughters are their own people. They'll become immensely vain or anti-vain, depending on which side of the issue they need to explore, at a certain age. They'll experiment in their own way, at a certain age, depending on which side of the issue they need to explore. And they'll form their own conclusions.<BR/><BR/>They'll consider my ideas and model (I hope) and will explore accepting and rejecting it.<BR/><BR/>I hope.<BR/><BR/>And in the end, they'll--through their own journey---end up at a point of what is right for them. Which might or might not be what *I* think is right. For me. I don't impose that on them. Or I try not to. Since I don't think I have "right" all sewn up in a neat little package. I just want them to feel Okay, really okay, with it. Whatever it is for them. KWIM?<BR/><BR/>So...I think...I actually sort of reject what Gloria said because it was a nice soundbyte but didn't seem to go this direction. Or maybe it did.<BR/><BR/>And while I am agreeing (per the link above) with her concept of girl ornaments versus boy instruments...I'm not positive who holds and accepts that view. Case in point, I was quite surprised by the "when you search for girls" results.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line is I'm on my own journey, and I constantly explore my currently held hypotheses and theories, so what example, in what snapshot of time and belief, will my daughters follow as a model?<BR/><BR/>I just don't think I can decide for them. I have to be there, helpfully supporting and guiding to the best of my ability.<BR/><BR/>I do have my own biases. Oh yes I do. And I'm sure I'll pass them along, but I want to encourage my kids to question. And I'll be honest. Usually, mostly, to the best of both our age-appropriate abilities.<BR/><BR/>So I agree with you when you say, "I'm still undecided about where, exactly, I draw the line between mediation and censorship in helping my children navigate the often choppy and mostly murky waters of this world that we live in." That paragraph hits it on the nose for me.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to be so long.Julie Pipperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169574697104642479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160327315027329992006-10-08T13:08:00.000-04:002006-10-08T13:08:00.000-04:00Ugh. I hate those Bratz babies, the big bratz and ...Ugh. I hate those Bratz babies, the big bratz and anything that tries to teach our little girls that it's cool to grow up too fast. I know exactly what your hubby meant. And I still haven't figured out how to keep her away from it all.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13153813792289640964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160327009511466272006-10-08T13:03:00.000-04:002006-10-08T13:03:00.000-04:00Mary P. As a woman, I want my daughter to make cho...Mary P. <BR/>As a woman, I want my daughter to make choices about whom to share her body with after serious thought and consideration. Not because she perceives it as something she must do because that's where her worth lies. I would be extremely upset if she took part in say, a rainbow party, or something along those lines. I want her to respect herself and value herself more than that. Because yes, I was a teenager who had sex, for ALL the wrong reasons.urban-urchinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18001320142893492171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160309492781461482006-10-08T08:11:00.000-04:002006-10-08T08:11:00.000-04:00Excellent point. Raising each gender has its chal...Excellent point. Raising each gender has its challenges in this environment. Those bratz dolls make me want to punch something.<BR/><BR/>LisaKelly Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18212604900842069797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160279960838686132006-10-07T23:59:00.000-04:002006-10-07T23:59:00.000-04:00I do not yet have a daughter, but as a woman and a...I do not yet have a daughter, but as a woman and a mother, this is an issue that I think about a lot. <BR/><BR/>After reading this post, it occurs to me that I really need to start being a lot more careful about the things I say regarding my physical appearance when I am around my son. Like most women in our culture, I have a hard time accepting my perfectly normal body for what it is. But if I want my son to grow up with the idea that a woman's heart, soul and brain are far more important than her looks (which I do), I can't very well let him overhear my obsessing about my own appearance, now, can I? I can censor myself, and I should work harder to do so. But I am not sure how to free myself from the underlying insecurities.<BR/><BR/>It really bothers me as the mother of a son to see things like those awful Bratz baby slut dolls and padded bras for six year old girls becoming so prevalent in our culture. I feel like the boys in my son's generation are being indoctrinated to view their female peers primarily as sexual objects practically from birth.<BR/><BR/>It's going to be challenging to raise a gentleman in this climate.Jaelithehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12081888212421953409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160268716026113972006-10-07T20:51:00.000-04:002006-10-07T20:51:00.000-04:00I have 2 girls and I see the troubles ahead and wh...I have 2 girls and I see the troubles ahead and while fighting over brushing their teeth seems like a mountain that needs to be climbed daily, the future as girls in this over sexualized, celebrity-wannabe, Olsen-sisters-heroin look - is not that bright.<BR/>But I married their mother - a beautiful, smart, strong, sexy woman that gives daily example to my girls of how a woman should be.<BR/>The same way we don't tell our kids - say thank you and please - because we think that if they'll see us polite and kind they will want to be the same ( it works so far) - the same applies to other aspects in life - sex and who we are is included.<BR/>the future can be brightAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160233994694745132006-10-07T11:13:00.000-04:002006-10-07T11:13:00.000-04:00Quickly - because I only have quickly these days -...Quickly - because I only have quickly these days - love Gloria's answer.<BR/><BR/>I try to be very aware of my own outloud sefl-talk around my daughters. I try to describe people - men and women - in terms other than noticing what they are wearing, how they look. Not that this is all bad, but I try to strike a balance.<BR/><BR/>I try, try, try to keep my girls thinking about all sorts of media early on. Asking questions. Getting them to think and make their own decision about what is being shown to them. It's no good to introduce them to truly kid friendly television or reading material or advertising of any sort, and allow them to establish an unquestioning "relationship" and then later on - tweens and teen years - suddenly tell them that they need to start questioning motives - again, both good and bad - of their "best friends". <BR/><BR/>This wassn't being quick, was it, lol!<BR/><BR/>And now I have a crying baby...<BR/><BR/>Great stuff! Thank you for continuting to do this!josetteplank.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790825543155685363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160232305315976592006-10-07T10:45:00.000-04:002006-10-07T10:45:00.000-04:00ECR, your comment about there being a strong ambiv...ECR, your comment about there being a strong ambivalence toward sex in the comments is well-taken. That's another thorny issue - one that I know that Rebecca/GGC took on yesterday - that begs consideration. We've got a lot of hang-ups - culturally and (many of us) personally - about sex, which complicate matters when it comes to educationg our children.<BR/><BR/>Something to give more thought too...Her Bad Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160196137509396682006-10-07T00:42:00.000-04:002006-10-07T00:42:00.000-04:00Great question. God willing I'll never have a dau...Great question. God willing I'll never have a daughter so won't be passing on my poor body image...the mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11536278508991059301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160188878178367452006-10-06T22:41:00.000-04:002006-10-06T22:41:00.000-04:00G.l.o.r.i.a. always gives good answer it seems.Bei...G.l.o.r.i.a. always gives good answer it seems.<BR/><BR/>Being a Mum of two girls, one 9 and already calling herself a tween, the other almost 5 and who wants one of those Bratz Babies we all hate....I can tell you honestly that I live in fear.<BR/><BR/>I live in fear because I did it all wrong as a young (way too young) teen, and for all the wrong reasons and with all the wrong guys.<BR/><BR/>As for my girls, I do not let them wear body revealing clothes except on the beach or the backyard. I am forthright, and I tell them it is tarty and inappropriate. <BR/><BR/>I too have self image issues, but they never hear it. to them, I work out to stay strong and be healthy. <BR/><BR/>Questions re 'where do babies come from' or 'do you french kiss Daddy' are answered honestly. We talk about Respect and Love going hand in hand. <BR/><BR/>I also expect there to be stumbling blocks along the road, and I am not looking forward to it. <BR/><BR/>Good luck, hope all of these comments help you.<BR/><BR/>But I expectcrazymummahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663148723513574331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160172825798961812006-10-06T18:13:00.000-04:002006-10-06T18:13:00.000-04:00Has anyone ever heard the radio show on Female eja...Has anyone ever heard the radio show on Female ejaculation -- get on it people?? <BR/><BR/>Or is that get it on?<BR/><BR/>Ahhhnnnnnie-hhhooooo.... My daughter is two. We started our discussion of advertising today. GS is right. 'cept about the oral sex part.<BR/><BR/>http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/shows/1sexor2/index.htmlmo-wohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10934156423936866994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160172663158324912006-10-06T18:11:00.000-04:002006-10-06T18:11:00.000-04:00To me it comes down to being honest with them - do...To me it comes down to being honest with them - don't hide things like Bratz from them because they'll see them anyway, but let them know that we don't think they are appropriate and why. Let them know what our standards and values are. <BR/><BR/>I very much like the approach taken in that famous book, "Where did I came from?" which provided my sex ed as a young kid too. Basically, it says it's something that two people who love each other very much do to get as close as possible and yes, it feels good too. <BR/><BR/>That works for me. I want her to know that it is healthy and natural and okay if you are in the right relationship with the right person and it feels right to you. But that if it doesn't feel right, you owe it to yourself to wait so that it's the good experience you would hope for. That it should be up to you, and anyone who is not willing to respect your feelings on that is not likely respecting you in the other ways you'd want them too either. That you should expect that and be prepared to demand it.kittenpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05215443551546036909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160161537484189972006-10-06T15:05:00.000-04:002006-10-06T15:05:00.000-04:00Great post. I really like the answer she gave. I c...Great post. I really like the answer she gave. I completely agree that modeling is critical to helping our children grow up to respect themselves. So far, we only have a son, but I feel that my Husband's treatment of me and how I treat myself will go very far in how my son treats the women in his life as he gets older.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you, though, that there are challenges to this if we are still struggling with our own issues re. sexuality and sexual roles. I think that the biggest step is just knowing that we should be working on being the best model for our children that we can. And then doing it to the best of our ability. I think that is all we can ask of ourselves.Cristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07245436504933052526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160154877284137782006-10-06T13:14:00.000-04:002006-10-06T13:14:00.000-04:00It's interesting to think that many of today's tee...It's interesting to think that many of today's teenagers have parents that were born during the sexual revolution. <BR/><BR/>I think if we respect ourselves and others, our children will do the same. I want my girls to know that they can trust me to be a person that they can always turn to for support and information. I will not make them feel bad about their decisions and I will always encourage them to think for themselves. In return, I will trust them. Laying down a strong foundation will help guide them to do what is right for them. Maybe this is idealistic but my parents installed this in me and it seemed to work.ms bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06997925420763913039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160153545964417042006-10-06T12:52:00.000-04:002006-10-06T12:52:00.000-04:00I find even in these comments a very strong ambiva...I find even in these comments a very strong ambivalence toward sex. It seems that there is almost a fear of what the phrase "sexual and whole in a positive way" can mean. We skirt around issues by talking about "slutty" dolls and eating disorders, but the problem goes deeper. As several of the previous commenters have indicated, and as other bloggers have recently discussed, we need to discover and embrace our own definitions. We need to become comfortable with certain realities, like breasts, vaginas, penises, and a whole assortment of sex acts that, in my opinion, need NEVER become examples of "unequal pleasure." I'd go so far as to say that sex is one of the most inherently equal things we've got going for us--but only if we claim our place as full and passionate partners.Binkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161541480469324280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160152748545708872006-10-06T12:39:00.000-04:002006-10-06T12:39:00.000-04:00For women struggling with body image (are there an...For women struggling with body image (are there any who aren't?): I highly highly recommend a book called _Fat! So?_ by Marilyn Wann.cinnamon gurlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05363288586285868779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160151407696934762006-10-06T12:16:00.000-04:002006-10-06T12:16:00.000-04:00As someone who was not given the right kind of edu...As someone who was not given the right kind of education about sex, and my place in the world as a girl who would become a woman, I intend to arm my daughter, or son with information. <BR/>I want to share age appropriate truths with my child so that they will know the world for what it is and know how to navigate it with my help and then someday on their own. <BR/>I want my child to know that they are allowed to protect themselves. I want to teach them to trust their instincts and instill a level of trust and communication so that they will never be ashamed to talk with me or Jeff about questions or doubts.<BR/>I'll teach my daughter or son to respect themselves and to respect others regardless of their gender or ethnicity or religious background. <BR/>I'll teach my child that their body belongs to them and that they are responsible for taking care of it. I'll teach them about boundaries and when and how to say no. <BR/>I'll tell them that they can do and be whatever they set their mind to and I will help them achieve their goals to the best of my ability. <BR/>And for as long as I can, I will do my best to protect and shield them from images in pop culture because I don't think that children need to be exposed to Paris and the Pussycat Dolls and the violence in children's programming and on the news and the sexualization of small children in both of those places.<BR/><BR/>I think I have my work cut out for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160151220948298102006-10-06T12:13:00.000-04:002006-10-06T12:13:00.000-04:00I love your question (as you know) and your though...I love your question (as you know) and your thoughts on this as well as hers, of course. And agree entirely, that I think we, our generation, is every bit as conflicted which is what's leading us to ask these kinds of questions. On one hand I want to say "all women are beautiful! More cellulite in the magazines! Down with boob jobs!" But on the other hand, I'm thinking oh my God, look at how horrible my body looks and what it's doing to my self-esteem. <BR/><BR/>Maybe we have to fix ourselves first. And quickly. Before we pass is on to those we least want to pass it to.Mom101https://www.blogger.com/profile/15468524489744839899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160148145987764782006-10-06T11:22:00.000-04:002006-10-06T11:22:00.000-04:00great question, C. And I think the response is als...great question, C. And I think the response is also affirming. I think Steinmen would be the first to agree that there is profound ambivalence connected to this issue--it's the nature of the beast. But these self-affirming measures are necessary first steps.<BR/><BR/>for instance--i am a lover of the skirted bathing suit. I admit I have issues with my bottom (see latest post on return of skinny pants;-)) On the other hand, I work to try and choose stylish clothes that suit my body type, and make me feel confident in who I am and how I look (and no, I do not feel this way all the time--far from it). <BR/>I love heels, even though I know that in some ways they are a modern day version of the victorian corset in terms of women's lib. But when I wear heels I feel more poised and confident--powerful. (not that I say heels=power for all women. hells no).<BR/><BR/>There's no esaping culture. There's no such thing as "being" separate from that culture--all we can do is work to empower ourselves within those terms. Like others have commented--we need to navigate through the crap, and show our daughters and sons how to (my huz just called me to inform me that my 4 yr old boy has declared himself "fat." fucking great.) and make sure that even while we embrace a nice lipstick and a pair of stilletoes (or a pair of birks and a weave) this does not mean we are allowing ourselves to be demeaned.<BR/><BR/>we want Steinem to give us a neater answer, but there ain't one that we can all accommodate.gingajoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356643079413822527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160147015601045572006-10-06T11:03:00.001-04:002006-10-06T11:03:00.001-04:00Rich topic, lots to say. We all have baggage that ...Rich topic, lots to say. <BR/><BR/>We all have baggage that we obsess about and some of it will, unfortunately, probably never be resolved. We have to parent through it, never let our children hear of those subjects from us. I think this is an important point. I think parents sometimes make the mistake of over-repeating a message reverse to the one they were sent (and are still trying to get over) as a way to ensure their baggage doesn't get passed on. Problem is, this creates a fixation on the topic, despite their best intentions. For example, in my experience, my mother, who is a large woman, constantly told me weight didn't matter. All the time. The consequence is that I was always aware of weight issues, they were always present. Had she never mentioned weight, I might not have thought about it so often - although I have to say, her message came through. Still, I'm really in favour of keeping any topic related to your 'issues' off the table with your kids. Altogether. Let your partner field those ones. <BR/><BR/>A more complex issue about girls and sexuality is what to do when girls mix up messages, even the positive ones. They understand that they can be like boys and use their bodies like instruments, not ornaments, but they choose to do it through their sexuality. I hear this a lot: young women who view using their sexualty to get what they want as an empowering, feminist idea. Hmm...For adult women this may be alright - I said maybe - but for young girls, I think its a disaster.Baby in the Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01167558214100594817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160146983758766032006-10-06T11:03:00.000-04:002006-10-06T11:03:00.000-04:00I agree with Izzy's point that we need to define o...I agree with Izzy's point that we need to define our terms, and also with Kate's personal working definition of those terms. I especially like Kate's point that we have to help our girls navigate those days when - for whatever reason - they AREN'T feeling positive about themselves (looks, mind, social standing, etc.).<BR/><BR/>But in doing so, I think the best place to start is by NOT denigrating ourselves - especially in terms of looks - and by being honest with our daughters when they inevitably question their own looks.<BR/><BR/>And yes - I say inevitably, having reassured my older daughter when she was not yet three after a child care classmate told her she was ugly. Maybe - hopefully - it won't happen so early for others, but it will happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1160144906483765052006-10-06T10:28:00.000-04:002006-10-06T10:28:00.000-04:00i think gloria's response is right on, but it's st...i think gloria's response is right on, but it's still damn scary, especially during those years where girls will typically despise anything about us. <BR/><BR/>The heartbreak is inevitable..my hope and desire is for M to be as comfortable in her own skin as possible, and that starts with us. <BR/><BR/>But it's much more goddamned complicated than that.Girlplustwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07056576921114387218noreply@blogger.com