tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post115246638456196640..comments2023-11-02T08:09:02.234-04:00Comments on Her Bad Mother: Fights Like a GirlHer Bad Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152812946191270472006-07-13T13:49:00.000-04:002006-07-13T13:49:00.000-04:00I am a bit of a conflict lover, myself...so I reco...I am a bit of a conflict lover, myself...so I recognize my own bias in this comment...<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that women (whether it is socialization or biology) who fear fighting or believe it to be inherently masculine...still fight...they just call it something else. And sometimes...do it differently. Because for women, relationship is so very, very important...we tend to try and disagree nicely. So as not to lose the relationship in the process.<BR/><BR/>But when women are afraid to disagree...I have often seen it turn very ugly in the end. In an effort to preserve relationships(or the appearance of relationship...the appearance of civility) there is this covert passive-aggressive back-stabbing that happens. <BR/><BR/>Now, this is still fighting...it is just dishonest (?) fighting. It is fighting that pretends to be friendly. But it is never friendly. <BR/><BR/>So, perhaps we the women...need to start fighting in public. Really disagree...in public...for everyone to see. In such a way, maybe we can start to chip away at the fear women have of disagreement...and start to create a culture of security and safety about disagreement. And then maybe we can have relationships in which we feel safe enough, confident enough...to disagree and still remain genuine friends.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the hijack!Bobitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09671826623140228982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152752976033151342006-07-12T21:09:00.000-04:002006-07-12T21:09:00.000-04:00I am a big fan of the author Deborah Tannen, who h...I am a big fan of the author Deborah Tannen, who has written about the innate communication differences between men and women. I do think that has a lot to do with the dynamics of discussion in places where you might find "more women" or "more men." I don't think women are less afraid to engage in discussion, I just think that we are more prone to try and convince through emphathetic means -- by sharing our own stories, by persuasion. I certainly don't think that makes us a group of people who sit and smile and nod with nary an intelligent thought. I like to think it's just a more civilized way to discuss. Reverting to name-calling or referring to someone else's position as "dumb" is certainly nothing I would expect to see in a rational and intellectual discussion.<BR/><BR/>I do think the exception to this is certain forums where anonymity is more common -- i.e, the BabyCenter site and others like it. The people who express strong opinions in a less respectful manner (through name calling, etc.) are generally able to do so through a certain level of protection. Just like I wouldn't invite myself over to a friend's house and proceed to rip apart their parenting approach/religious beliefs/what have you to shreds, I would not expect to visit a friend's blog and start acting disrespectful. That's not to say I would not disagree, and even enter into a debate via comments -- I just do not ever see myself doing it in a way that outsiders would consider fighting. That's not really the way I debate or discuss in real life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152709315598831332006-07-12T09:01:00.000-04:002006-07-12T09:01:00.000-04:00It's been well-documented that women as a whole us...It's been well-documented that women as a whole use language to build relationships, while men use language to demonstrate or obtain power. Generalization of course, but this certainly explains a whole lot, including Mother Goosemouse's interesting assessment.<BR/><BR/>Disagree (shocker) with RTK who says people get upset over the message alone and not the delivery system. Women are very sensitive to nuance. If you've ever been or had a friend you know this. It's the difference between saying "yes, that makes your butt look big," or "you know, I really do love you in that other pair of pants." Unless you're dense, you get the exact same point. One just doesn't make you feel like crap. <BR/><BR/>For example, RTK: When you start a comment with "Um," it's a nasty way of saying, "I'm smarter than you." See? Sensitive to nuance.Mom101https://www.blogger.com/profile/15468524489744839899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152650650747835842006-07-11T16:44:00.000-04:002006-07-11T16:44:00.000-04:00Hey HBM, I'm coming to this late, but oooh it's a ...Hey HBM, I'm coming to this late, but oooh it's a doozie of a post. Love it. These are questions I have been thinking about too--like you, looking at this whole thing from a wholly more academic perspective and thinking "what *is* going on here? Your ideas here have really been interesting to me.<BR/><BR/>Here are some of my initial thoughts on this. First about fighting (or rhetorical debate) and context. One thing that gets me going when people make sweeping declarations about Blogs (all blogs) is that they ignore the issue of context. The community you are referring to here--call us Mommy Bloggers, or liberal bitch bloggers with some good dudes for variety, well in some ways we seem pretty defined and the unspoken rules relatively clearcut. This is a space for creative expression, support, empathy, soul-searching, and some questioning. I would hesitate to directly take someone on within what I identify as "my" community, and I tend to steer clear of the blogs that are coming from somewhere else.<BR/><BR/>I guess the debate you are thinking about here might need the explicit setting up of a different context, where we state openly--"this is a place for debate--please feel feel to engage, critique, disagree. this is *not* about personal attacks... here are the rules." The context of our community dictates that critiques can be read as attacks, and it's intriguing to me how very delicate people are about making sure comments are supportive and connective rather than critical.<BR/><BR/>That said, and I am now going to contradict some of my own point here--while the open rhetorical debate that you and I twisted gals loved/loahted in the context of academia (and some of it is pretty covert and nasty as you know) I think debate, engagement, negotiation over the meanings and pressures of parenthood and gender--they are ALL here. Not always openly argued over, but nevertheless everpresent in these spaces where we are coming together and processing where and who we are--as mothers, women, etc... <BR/><BR/>It's certainly not all mutual cheerleading (though that is nice) there's a whole lot of messy stuff we're all working through here--collectively. It's not debate, but it is struggle. So just because we're not debating, it doesnt mean we're not debating. Y'know?gingajoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356643079413822527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152650093636460412006-07-11T16:34:00.000-04:002006-07-11T16:34:00.000-04:00Actaully, I wish I knew more real-life women worth...Actaully, I wish I knew more real-life women worth fighting with. I just nod and smile when I'm dealing with a soccer-mom/supermom dud at the playground. In that way, I'm totally non-assertive. BUT, when it comes to writing, I consider that in itself a form of argument. I wish I'd get some more cage-action with the ladies. I wanna do it! I'm sick of doing it with the boys, HA!<BR/>Of course, I'm just talking about the ideas/philosophic stuff. With feelings and mommy stuff, I just do hugs. I mean, duh. I'm not a jerk. We totally need hugs. That stuff's just intuitive, I think. I think we *always* do that right as 'mommy bloggers.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152646873307715282006-07-11T15:41:00.000-04:002006-07-11T15:41:00.000-04:00There is a certain honor code that is the underpin...There is a certain honor code that is the underpinning of a smack down. If you can attack me, I'll love you. That's true respect. Often the formulation of respect happens in the cage as in *cage fighting*. (I actaully harbor fantasies of doing a dissertation on women cage fighters when I get around to doing grad work in American Studies.)But I'm a dark, chthonic Camille Paglia kind of feminist. I love beauty and anger. And I *love* that 'ole German philosopher to whom you referred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152646718206995952006-07-11T15:38:00.000-04:002006-07-11T15:38:00.000-04:00I dont have a "philosophy" to my blogging, nor do ...I dont have a "philosophy" to my blogging, nor do I necessairly ascribe to one in the blogs I read. I am attracted to Mommy Blogs because I was gobsmacked by motherhood and all of its delicious hell, in the same way I was obsessed with infertility message boards back in the day.<BR/>I absolutely self-selected and I damn well better expect support and commiseration and comaraderie and virtual Pomegranate-tinis from my fellow Mom's. It's what I dish out, after all.<BR/><BR/>I do think most women fight differently than most men. Is it a feminist issue? I think its just a tendency issue. In my marriage we started out with me fighting for understanding and him fighting to win. But I usually won. (And my husband is tremendously competitive and comes from a long line of sore losers.) Now we both argue for clarity and I still win, but he learned to stick to the facts and I learned to not stake our relationship on every little scuffle. I dont feel like either of us let our gender down by being more respectful and shutting up and listening for a minute.Miguelitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10134489935342720776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152644132972478192006-07-11T14:55:00.000-04:002006-07-11T14:55:00.000-04:00If you spend any time on the BabyCenter bulletin b...If you spend any time on the BabyCenter bulletin boards, you know that neither the subject matter (personal, anecdotal) nor the gender (female) of the mommy-blogosphere can fully explain the very high degree of civility and support we typically encounter around here. If you would like to see just how mean and nasty a mom can be, go onto a BabyCenter birth club and mention that you're planning to CIO. <BR/><BR/>I think the key is that little trash-can icon below each comment. There really isn't any point in trying to start a flame war if your inflammatory comment can be removed whenever the blogger sees fit. Trolls can stir up a lot more trouble on a bulletin board, where the intensity of the response keeps the thread afloat for days.<BR/><BR/>Since most of us commenters have our own blogs, there's a healthy helping of do-unto-others going on as well: I reveal a lot of personal things on my blog, which means that I'm vulnerable - too vulnerable, perhaps, to risk going around ripping other people to shreds.Beahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15957626443087438904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152640516749343792006-07-11T13:55:00.000-04:002006-07-11T13:55:00.000-04:00I'm here, I just haven't had time to comment yet. ...I'm here, I just haven't had time to comment yet. I've been trying to comment, but little people keep interupting me.<BR/><BR/>I think, my whole point in enjoying the fight thing was that I wish more Mommybloggers would speak up and not just post about nothing. <BR/><BR/>That made no sense. I think I'm going to go post something about what I mean. Because if not, I will hijack this entire thread.Queen of Spainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00859345688770909616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152639050636295542006-07-11T13:30:00.000-04:002006-07-11T13:30:00.000-04:00Have you read the book "Girlfighting"? I found it ...Have you read the book "Girlfighting"? I found it to be an excellent analysis of the socialization of womens fighting techniques....Ergo the Horizontal Relational agression that we tend to perpetuate.<BR/><BR/>I also wonder if some is simple brain chemistry, HBM? Have you read Wonder of Girls/Wonder of Boys? I am fascinated by the research that shows the different chemical/neural responses in male/female brains - especially when processing fight/flight response.Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920042208198309201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152636352959533542006-07-11T12:45:00.000-04:002006-07-11T12:45:00.000-04:00I think part of this has to do with the personal n...I think part of this has to do with the personal nature of blogs. A blog is someone's virtual home, and so you're less likley to go messing up their home. <BR/><BR/>Would you walk up to a woman giving her baby a bottle on her front porch, snatch the bottle out of her hand and lecture her on the benefits of breastfeeding? Of course not. And like that, a person talking about the fact that they formula feed on their blog is not really a topic open for debate: it's simply that woman expressing her personal feelings.<BR/><BR/>Now, if the same woman was sitting on her porch, yelling at passerbys, "You breastfeed your baby? That's sick, you weirdo! Go back to the jungle!", you might feel inclined to speak with her and enter into a debate, or even a fight. The same on a blog - if soemone was writing that they think all who breastfeed were wrong, well, they're opening themselves up for a fight. <BR/><BR/>It's the difference between a person expressing their individual truth and a person stating what they believe to be a universal truth. And for most topics in mommy blogging, people are more likely to be sharing their individual truths and less universal truth. <BR/><BR/>Maybe this means we prefer to leave the fighting to the talking heads? I dunno. Personally, I stick to my own truths most of the time, but I do enjoy a little debate by bringing in my thoughts on others trying to spread their own individual truth as "universal truth" (like Hirshman).<BR/><BR/>And when it comes to debating vs. fighting, I prefer debating. Fighting is half a debate - you only care about winning, and you aren't listening to anything said by your opponent. No common ground can be made. Sure, the adreneline feels good afterwards, but you didn't actually do anything.<BR/><BR/>Sheesh, I got long-winded. OK, shutting up now.Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07345875955750219033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152634153518002442006-07-11T12:09:00.000-04:002006-07-11T12:09:00.000-04:00You buy the cutest baby t-shirts!!Can u believe I ...You buy the cutest baby t-shirts!!<BR/>Can u believe I cna't find the "mutha sucka" shirt anywhere here in Vancouver because apparently it offends certain people!!!??? What a bunch of pruds in this city!!Haute Mamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14352803055907107943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152628982706949932006-07-11T10:43:00.000-04:002006-07-11T10:43:00.000-04:00I'm generally not one to talk so much in comments,...I'm generally not one to talk so much in comments, but RTK keeps messin' with the argument so what the hell...<BR/><BR/>1) The only circumstances under which I'll 'shred' arguments 'for fun' is, as I said, with talking heads like Hirshman. And then only when the arguments are, in whole or in part, dumb or offensive.<BR/><BR/>2) The idea that there is a 'philosophy' in the 'mommy blogosphere' is a puzzling one. There's much that I could say about this but I'll leave it at this: I don't see it.<BR/><BR/>3) People react to judgments about their choices. This is true for most people, and was a central point in my war post. To charge that this is uniquely true of my 'readers' (I assume that you are referring to mommy bloggers more generally) is baseless. In any case, the debate about the Mommy Wars was back a few posts.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Metro Mama - I got the onesie at TNT Kids in Hazelton Lanes.Her Bad Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152620230931765382006-07-11T08:17:00.000-04:002006-07-11T08:17:00.000-04:00Hmm, well I pretty much conduct myself the same wa...Hmm, well I pretty much conduct myself the same way at work in the academy as at home when it comes to arguments. I wouldn’t dream of shredding someone’s ideas just for fun in either place. I have zero interest in that. I’ll only shred people’s ideas if I think they’re dangerous or dumb or will have a potentially negative impact on others.<BR/><BR/>Quite frankly, if I had to describe the overall philosophy of the Mummy Blogosphere it would be deeply muddled choice-ism. As Katha Pollitt writes in her most recent column: “Feminists have indeed traded that language for the I'm-OK-you're-OK language of personal choice, and are now in the philosophically absurd position of smiling politely at everything women do, from naked mud wrestling to home schooling. But what happens when the choice is a bad idea, for yourself, for other women, for society? Don't we ever get to talk about that?” http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060717/pollitt<BR/><BR/>And I’ll say this for the very last time and then bow out of this discussion: I think that when your readers get all worked up it’s a classic shoot-the-messenger scenario. What seems to upset them, at core, is the idea that not all choices are equally valid (because for all their differences, Hirshman and Flanagan both make that point) not the way that message is delivered.Tearfreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198421278132910096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152593914409343382006-07-11T00:58:00.000-04:002006-07-11T00:58:00.000-04:00Communicating in text on any topic, not to mention...Communicating in text on any topic, not to mention a controversial subject is tricky, especially when you don't know the writing style of those with whom you're having the discussion/disagreement. We could spend lots of time re-writing our comments to reduce instances where offense is given but not meant . . . however, that really takes a lot more time, and sometimes you're trying to have a faster, more natural conversation. <BR/><BR/>I get a lot of email at work and see how people handle themselves getting in and out of flamewars. More men than women, but I wonder if that's mostly due to the much higher male population in the office, rather than fight style.Lady Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13360693450146358247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152584724925968782006-07-10T22:25:00.000-04:002006-07-10T22:25:00.000-04:00such an interesting post, and a topic I have been ...such an interesting post, and a topic I have been mulling over since I first walked (ok, stomped) into the whacky world of the blogsphere. <BR/>Is everybody really so damn diplomatic? Are we pussy-footing around our true opinions under the guise of being nurturing, sensitive and gentle when really we are just afraid of alienating our 'audience' and losing readers? <BR/>Well, I'm not exactly sure. I have refrained from 'pulling out the punches' in comments on occasion, but mostly because I would rather think more about it and perhaps write a post that invites opinion, not just dictates it.<BR/>It's a tricky thing, but much of the beauty of being a woman is that, hopefully, we can retain an inherent understanding of each other while understanding that if we all thought the same way, it would certainly be a boring tribe. <BR/>A tough one.karengreenershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488069680575426742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152584515443011402006-07-10T22:21:00.000-04:002006-07-10T22:21:00.000-04:00Effective debate requires a clear understanding of...Effective debate requires a clear understanding of both sides of the discussion. If you are ignorant of the salient points of the other side, then you will not be able to effectively defend your own position.<BR/><BR/>Women are often much more emotionally attached to their positions than men are. Therefore, they don't WANT to understand the other side. Debate - or even discourse - is hurtful, because it's perceived as a personal attack. And that's why I believe women are less inclined toward debate.<BR/><BR/>Kyle routinely engages male friends in religious debate, and their relationships are no worse for wear - even after discussing such a personal and potentially contentious topic.<BR/><BR/>Working in IT, I've had lots of male friends. We've pissed each other off (although it took A LOT), but I noted how differently they handled it, and likewise, I handled it differently than I would with a female friend.<BR/><BR/>I love open discourse; it's how I learn from others. But what turns me off are sweeping statements passing unsubstantiated judgments. Conversely, what turns me on are those who are willing to entertain a different point of view, especially that which is diametrically opposite their own. That demonstrates confidence and intelligence and a true desire to know others and learn from them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152583202320286422006-07-10T22:00:00.000-04:002006-07-10T22:00:00.000-04:00P.S. Love WonderBaby's tattoo t-shirt. What does...P.S. Love WonderBaby's tattoo t-shirt. What does it say?<BR/><BR/>Did you get it at that new store on King W?metro mamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00461160881873679783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152583080614610242006-07-10T21:58:00.000-04:002006-07-10T21:58:00.000-04:00If it is feminine to 'disagree' rather than 'fight...If it is feminine to 'disagree' rather than 'fight', I think we should consider ourselves lucky we tend to do the former. When we disagree, that leads to discourse, and we usually listen to the other position to try to understand it better (especially in the respectful environment that is the mommy blogosphere). When we fight, we are mostly concerned with defending (and imposing) our position, without any effort towards learning the other view. <BR/><BR/>I've yet to write about Hirshman and Flanagan (and intend to). I think they both have valid arguments. I also think it's a good thing their claims are so objectionable--they get us thinking, and talking and getting passionate about these issues. <BR/><BR/>The more we think and talk (and write!) the more we learn.metro mamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00461160881873679783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152579273715164682006-07-10T20:54:00.000-04:002006-07-10T20:54:00.000-04:00I've always been the kind of person to go for thei...I've always been the kind of person to go for their throats, including in online forums--what I've found in the mommy blogosphere is that most of hte discussions don't trigger that reflex in me because they're not right/wrong subjects. Someone posting that they introduced solids to their baby at three months is an anecdote, not a debate, and whether or not I would have done the same thing doesn't change the fact that it wasn't my life and they aren't trying to tell me what to do. On the other hand, if someone posts that some law should be changed, I consider that a debate, not an anecdote, and I go in swinging if I want to. Danigirl posted recently about the Canadian daycare debacle, and I didn't pull any punches in her comments section.<BR/><BR/>So I think it says more about the subject matter of the momosphere than its inhabitants. Someone posting about why they chose breastmilk or formula--not a debate. Someone posting about the evils of formula or the grossness of breastfeeding--that's a debate, and I treat it accordingly. And it has, so far as I know, not cost me any friends.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152576044040955752006-07-10T20:00:00.000-04:002006-07-10T20:00:00.000-04:00RTK - Again, this wasn't about Hirshman. I'm prett...RTK - <BR/><BR/>Again, this wasn't about Hirshman. I'm pretty sure that Hirshman gives no shit whatsoever about whatever I might say about her faulty (tho' emphatically not seductive) arguments, and, yes, I'm certain that as a self-professed philosopher she'd defend my desire to do so. But, again, not about her. She was a jumping-off point for me to consider the difference between my comportment in academic environments and in this one, the better to consider my own thoughts about debate vs. fighting vs. whatever.<BR/><BR/>But you may have answered my questions. I'm not provoked to active or aggressive critique in the blogosphere, perhaps, because I don't very often come across egregiously faulty arguments. In fact, I would say that I don't come across many 'arguments' at all - what's out here is people speaking their own truth to power and even where I might disagree with some 'truths,' I respect the authors too much to aggressively and directly challenge them on the grounds of intellectual critique. So, in those cases, I say that I hold a different view and maybe go off and write my own post about my own views.<BR/><BR/>Discussion is more amenable to friendship than is out-and-out critique, as Kittenpie nicely suggested above.Her Bad Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535958887714152413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152574514142232102006-07-10T19:35:00.000-04:002006-07-10T19:35:00.000-04:00RJK - do you rip your friends' argument to shreds ...RJK - do you rip <I>your</I> friends' argument to shreds and expect them to like you? There's a difference between exposing bad arguments on an intellectual plane while keeping it respectful and llighting into people you know and like. That is not to say that it's not possible to have differing opinions, but that you might feel more concern about treading carefully. After all, theese friends are not professing to be experts and putting forth edicts about What Is Right, most of them are expressing a personal opinion, albeit in a public forum. I think there's a difference in their intent and how it should be handled as a friend rather than a critic.kittenpiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05215443551546036909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152572353704431672006-07-10T18:59:00.000-04:002006-07-10T18:59:00.000-04:00Bad mother,Hirschmann is a philosophy professor fo...Bad mother,<BR/><BR/>Hirschmann is a philosophy professor for gawd's sake. I'm sure she'd welcome substantive critiques of her argument that didn't give way to character assasination. From what I've read, she objected to the "Linda's so mean" school of critiquing and, ahem, well, I won't go there.<BR/><BR/>As for your desire to be liked, the challenge is to rip someone's argument to pieces AND be liked. There are quite a few people who succeed in doing just thatthat. And BTW, they don't rip the arguments apart as a game, but because they think it's important that faulty, seductive arguments be exposed.Tearfreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198421278132910096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152571872481082612006-07-10T18:51:00.000-04:002006-07-10T18:51:00.000-04:00Um, Urban Mummy, did you miss the Zidane headbutt ...Um, Urban Mummy, did you miss the Zidane headbutt that everyone's talking about? Today is not the day to talk about civility in sports.Tearfreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198421278132910096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21558474.post-1152569570328443732006-07-10T18:12:00.000-04:002006-07-10T18:12:00.000-04:00Watching footage of soccer celebrations from all o...Watching footage of soccer celebrations from all over the world last night it struck me (again) how effective sports could be used to solve disputes. Millions of people all the world over accepted who lost, who won. So much better than a war. (I'd dig out a Sontag reference on the paralells of sport to fascism if <BR/>I had the time, but no.) Anyhoo, when I think of 'fighting like a man', I think less of war - not interested in that - and more of sport - VERY interested. Sport has its rules, civility if you like, but you are in it to win. WIN. You are supposed to beat your opponent. Just fairly. With skill. <BR/>I personally wish there was more lively debate in the mommy blogosphere. Everyone is so intelligent and has a depth of experience. I think it would be extremely interesting and worthwhile.Baby in the Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01167558214100594817noreply@blogger.com